00:00:07:10 - 00:00:34:18
Unknown
Welcome back to the Seven Figure Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Whitney, and I have Glenn Peterson from Bateman Collective today. What incredible opportunity in today's environment, marketing efficiency and effectiveness is a non-negotiable. So we try to bring on guests who have some of the best results across the industry. And I just I just did a call with Brandon Bateman, who owns the agency.
00:00:34:18 - 00:00:54:09
Unknown
And I'm just seeing what they do for their clients is is honestly like incredible in, in an in an area in an industry where he can't swing a cat without hitting some kind of agency or service provider. There's so many options out there. It's like, how do you know who the best of the best is? Well, I'll tell you how.
00:00:54:10 - 00:01:20:23
Unknown
You know, you come on this podcast and listen because we only bring on the best of the best. So without further ado, Glenn, welcome to the show, brother. Thank you. I'm excited to be here and hear a lot about your audience and about you guys as well. Love it man. Love it. Yep. So we've obviously been the leading house flipping mastermind for the last decade or so, some of the best operators in the country, but direct a seller.
00:01:20:23 - 00:01:49:13
Unknown
Marketing is a critical component to grow a business in this industry. I'm not saying you have to do it to do any deals. I'm just saying if you want a business and you want to grow it, you have to control your your lead generation. Leads are the oxygen of your business. And of course, we talk a lot about the different marketing channels, from TV to PPC to people to CEOs to direct mail and cold calling and texting and all of those things.
00:01:49:13 - 00:02:08:08
Unknown
And they all are great. They all work, all marketing channels work. Some work better than others, and some bring you better quality leads than others. So with that said, where do you fit in the market? Well, first tell me your background, Glenn. I'd love to know just kind of your background and and how you got with Bateman and what you guys are doing.
00:02:08:10 - 00:02:36:06
Unknown
Yeah. So I actually have been in marketing for 15 years. Overall. Four of it was traditional marketing. I did print and billboard back in the day. Hated it. So then I switched to sales for a while and then found digital marketing, which I mean like so about 11 years ago, I actually started doing digital agents or digital marketing in-house and then switched to an agency, and I was at that last agency for ten years and worked my way up and actually became like the director of PPC.
00:02:36:06 - 00:02:55:23
Unknown
And so I had 22 people underneath me. We were spending $13 million a month on Google. So tons of yeah, yeah, it was a big agency. And even we got so close with Google and we're spending so much that Google started writing us out, even paying for me to go to like their marketing live events, but then start bringing clients.
00:02:55:23 - 00:03:14:22
Unknown
We actually start a bunch of in in-house places at Google where I take I took like 50 clients and had like their VP's and their product specialists come talk to us and tell us the next best thing and what we need to be doing to just make our spend a lot more efficient. And so I was there and I loved it.
00:03:14:22 - 00:03:34:21
Unknown
But then Brandon approached me about working at Bateman and I was like, I'll come see. I'll come see what it's about. And the way that Brandon looked at things is what I was wanting our other agency to be doing. And that's data centric, really focusing on one industry and really diving into it and then using so much information.
00:03:34:21 - 00:03:56:20
Unknown
And as you saw from Brandon's brain, he's just a wealth of knowledge and data on top of his brain. And so when I saw that, I'm like, this is what we need, this is where I need to go. And so I came over to Bateman almost a year ago at this point, as the head of partnerships, to really talk about marketing and meet with people like join these groups and go to mastermind events.
00:03:56:20 - 00:04:27:14
Unknown
And so I was excited to see what Bateman really did for the industry. And so I love it and have loved every bit of it since I came over to. I've seen I've seen a lot of folks come and go from a service provider, marketing provider perspective. And I can tell you that Bateman has been around for a while, and it's here to stay because of his care for the digital marketing space and the real estate customer.
00:04:27:16 - 00:04:56:09
Unknown
And it's it's rare to find an agency that understands both sides really well. Typically they understand one or the other. And Brandon's approach to marketing efficiency and you know, he's he's such a good steward of the marketing dollar, you know. And he understands everything. And that kind of if we spend dollars, what happens to those dollars and how do they get to producing a return on investment for investors.
00:04:56:09 - 00:05:18:05
Unknown
And it's all data driven though. You're right. And I'm talking to Brandon, and he's the first agency owner that I've ever got on a call with to look at their service. And he said I wouldn't run PPC. I wouldn't pay me to do PPC in your area because I don't think you'll be successful for these data backed reasons.
00:05:18:07 - 00:05:44:07
Unknown
Yeah. And I was like, wow, he just told me not to give them money. And obviously that that just tells you kind of the quality of the company and Brandon's approach and how results focus that the team is. And I think that's incredible. Your background is fascinating, man. Like you're talking big Google, big spend, which, you know, 13 million bucks a month is a lot.
00:05:44:08 - 00:06:06:02
Unknown
I'm sure there are even bigger agencies spending more. But when you get that breadth of dollar spent on a marketing platform, you really do learn a lot of the nuance of it. How have you been able to take kind of that big data, big Google experience, and bring it all the way down into the real estate niche to get these investors results?
00:06:06:04 - 00:06:22:12
Unknown
Yeah, and it's funny because I actually didn't even bring up how much total spend. I mean, me and Brandon sat down one day. He's like, I want to know how much total spend. And it was $280 million that we were. I was responsible for whether I was the media buyer, my teams and and all the way to the director level.
00:06:22:12 - 00:06:40:20
Unknown
We were we calculated up. And Brandon's like, there's very few people I know at that level. And I'm like, yeah, but there's companies who spend that in a month or in a year. And so it's kind of crazy that we are it was a big thing, but it is small compared to like the Coca-Cola's and stuff. But yeah.
00:06:40:21 - 00:06:57:22
Unknown
And what I've actually done is you're right, I actually love that. I've been able to take a lot of that stuff and implement it. So I mean, my first few weeks on the job, I sat down with our director of PPC and I just said, hey, walk me through everything you're doing. And I'm like, oh, have you thought of it this way?
00:06:57:23 - 00:07:20:00
Unknown
Have you gone this way? And the thing that brought me over and also has been even improving ever since I came on is just what we, we full circle tracking, which is actually where offline conversion tracking is what Google calls it, which is past the point of lead. A lot of agencies, a lot of people care about getting you leads, and we don't.
00:07:20:01 - 00:07:49:15
Unknown
We care about getting you contracts. We like to follow those leads and see what actually happens, because that's all Google can see. If you don't do it properly, if you don't do, the data approach is taking what became a deal, how much profit was in that deal, and teaching Google that because Google's one of the biggest AI products there is, even though we're used to like the ChatGPT and stuff, but all of their bidding, everything in the background of Google is working on AI models, and AI is only as good as the data you feed it.
00:07:49:15 - 00:08:15:08
Unknown
And so that's why brand is approach. I was like, this is what Google is talking about. And so then just taking that and I've helped fine tune it and dial it in even further. But I mean they already had like a killer process on that. But moving that further. And then the funny thing is one of my right hand men at my last agency, we got him hired on now as the new director of PPC, because I was like, we need to take this to the next level.
00:08:15:08 - 00:08:34:16
Unknown
And that's who I brought in. Like me and two other people were like, we have to get this guy. He's the most intelligent guy in the industry in data behind maybe behind Brandon, but I don't know. Brandon and him just have such great minds that have been in sync. And so bringing him on has just even improved our numbers further.
00:08:34:16 - 00:08:59:00
Unknown
It's crazy what's happening, and a lot of it's turning the corner and we're going to see greater and greater results because of that. Yeah, I love that. And I don't know that people I don't know if people realize, you know, you don't own the Google platform. So how they do ads can often change. So and that agency can get stale if they're not, if they don't.
00:08:59:01 - 00:09:24:10
Unknown
The reason that having those intelligent like fully bought in understanding of the Google ecosystem and other PPC is so important is because the rate of change, and not just like the fact that Google changed an algorithm, but understanding what that change means to how we set up campaigns and how we continue to get meaningful results for the clients.
00:09:24:10 - 00:09:43:19
Unknown
So like that, that's not just like exciting because you brought in a smart Google guy. It's it's exciting because you're investing in your business. And the reason why Bateman remains, you know, at the top of the food chain is because you continue to invest in having the right people on the cutting edge of what's happening to continue to drive results.
00:09:43:19 - 00:10:13:18
Unknown
Let's let's shift a little more of the kind of real estate industry side of the house. And yeah, you guys, you guys primarily focus on SEO and PPC in the in your campaigns and supporting real estate investors. How to talk to me about what you guys are seeing in the landscape today, what kind of ROI or clients getting like, tell me, tell me what success looks like for somebody running Google Ads or has SEO, SEO going.
00:10:13:18 - 00:10:34:21
Unknown
And let's baseline it like let's baseline what success means. Like, you know, how many leads is somebody getting in a successful business today that you guys are managing on SEO a month. And what are they typically closing? Same kind of with PPC. What's a what's an effective PPC campaign look like? How much are people spending and how many leads are they getting?
00:10:35:01 - 00:10:53:00
Unknown
Like, I'm talking about the people who are in your ecosystem, who are doing it in a meaningful way and getting results, you know? Yeah. And that's something that we I love is I'm able to see that on a macro scale as well as on a macro scale. I dive into some areas and some locations, but really on the macro scale, it is very good for everybody to hear.
00:10:53:00 - 00:11:18:01
Unknown
And there are different sections of what we have because there is SEO like you mentioned, there's AoE, which or Geo, which is the newest, coolest thing, but it's part of SEO and it's showing up for those AI searches. Those two wrapped together do create our SEO product, and that is a different product than Google PPC. We've been talking a lot about Google, but there's also Facebook.
00:11:18:03 - 00:11:41:20
Unknown
So the meta platform, we actually do a lot of meta advertising too. So there's different actually metrics for each of those. And so I can actually walk you through those. And for SEO, I mean SEO is the number one ROI item in any marketing. Now it's the longest to get going. The longest to actually get you results. And it's not consistent because it's just based on when users search.
00:11:41:20 - 00:12:03:01
Unknown
You can't spend more on SEO because all SEO is you paying to put products, get your website, get in front of the searches and be organically showing up. And so that's why it's the best ROI is because you don't pay per mail, you don't pay per click like so. You don't pay per lead. It's just paying somebody to help get you in front of everybody.
00:12:03:01 - 00:12:31:06
Unknown
So we're seeing a ten on that in in like a general scale. Now we have some clients who it's 19.5 is some of the best that we have ROI on it. But of course they've been with us for a long time and we've built up to get to that point because SEO can take we used to say it takes 12 to 16 months to get going, but now with AI, it's actually changed it where it's shortening that time.
00:12:31:06 - 00:12:49:15
Unknown
And so it's way quicker than that to AI is picking up things quicker and helping Google even learn more. And so it actually is I'd say like 9 to 12 months at most at this point. I've had some where I jumped in and changed some stuff and they were seeing results within weeks. And I'm like, I don't guarantee that.
00:12:49:15 - 00:13:09:23
Unknown
That's not like traditional. And even the person I was like, hey, that's not normal. Just so you know, I'm not expecting it to continue at that rate. But he he got leads within a couple of weeks. And I was like, I don't know how that's possible, but awesome. I'm so excited about that. So that's SEO and and really the lead to contract.
00:13:10:00 - 00:13:31:10
Unknown
We look at lead to contract ratios. So we do understand like how great they are. I mean it's about it's about a 5 to 7 leads to contract. So it's one of the betters. And and that I guess is for our long term clients ten is for total clients. I, I always segment it out. If they've been with us for a year or longer.
00:13:31:12 - 00:14:03:18
Unknown
We look at it different than in the first 12 months. But around a 1010 leads to contract. And then let's let's define that a little bit, Glen, because I think that's a fruitful conversation, because somebody will hear that I get ten leads, I get a contract. What about you know, there are things that come through as a lead that are marketing and solicitation or spam and bad number or wrong number or miss style or, you know, other wholesalers, investors filling out forms.
00:14:03:18 - 00:14:24:04
Unknown
So when we when we're talking lead here, we're talking six, seven leads to a contract. We're talking a net lead like it's a human who has a house and wants this out. So that is funny because if you look at anybody else's PPC campaign compared to ours, they'll say a conversion is a lead, which is that gross lead.
00:14:24:04 - 00:14:46:22
Unknown
But how we look at Leeds are net leads. And so we actually even on PBC on anything. What we do is if if they come in we do send the client the information, but then we actually go make sure it's not on the MLS, that it's a true address and true phone number. And then at that point we tell Google, okay, this is actually at least a bit of a quality lead.
00:14:46:22 - 00:15:05:07
Unknown
And so we do look at net leads and gross leads differently. And so even sometimes people like well my cost per conversion was cheaper with these other guys. And I'm like, well that's because you're looking at gross leads. Well we're looking at net leads. And so that's a very important detail and something that we pay attention to in ours.
00:15:05:10 - 00:15:23:19
Unknown
And then even past that point we even teach Google. Okay. And what happened with that lead. Did you contact that lead. Is it an appointment. Did it make it to contract? Did it make an actual deal in revenue in your pocket. And we track everything beyond that point to. And so we pay attention to a lot of those things.
00:15:23:19 - 00:15:58:16
Unknown
But the ten leads to a contract on average for our clients is actually on. It's actually on the net leads, not on the gross. That's yeah. That's incredible. So but doesn't mean they're not getting gross leads in there getting them in. But you're, you're you're specifically looking at the net lead. So on a given month if like let's say I'm in month 12 right now with with Bateman and I'm getting how many gross leads would you expect me to be getting per month and how many net?
00:15:58:18 - 00:16:28:00
Unknown
It depends. And it is because every market, every I mean, like there's markets that like you saw we turn down and we're just like, hey, it doesn't make sense either. The math doesn't make sense. Your markets too small or your budgets too small for the market. And so but what we do see is I just pulled it up so I could tell you our net lead to a net lead percentage is 87% of our gross leads become net leads.
00:16:28:00 - 00:16:51:19
Unknown
And so we do see that there's that 13% that immediately is disqualified through that. And so that's we do pay attention for that. And to be fair also. So an organic organic ones which is C-O, they actually come in and go to your website. We actually don't curate those as well because it's just going to your website or they're calling immediately.
00:16:51:19 - 00:17:17:12
Unknown
While PPC, we are adamant about curating those leads, making sure they are actually quality leads coming through. Yeah, I think that's I think those are important distinctions. I feel like the industry, the here kind of the wave top stuff, but they don't understand gross leads and that leads and then general net lead to contract conversion. Right. And you guys you guys don't control conversion contracts.
00:17:17:12 - 00:17:49:03
Unknown
So this is where I see marketing and operators have conflict. Because you don't control somebody's sales team. You don't control whether or not they actually pick the phone up and call the person in the first two minutes. There are operator side requirements for marketing to be successful, and that's where the challenge lies. And what I would tell people listening to this, if you're doing the right things, particularly for digital inbound leads, first and foremost is what we we consider speed to lead.
00:17:49:04 - 00:18:16:03
Unknown
So if you're getting on the phone, the lead comes into your business. I don't care what time it is or what day it is, you want to be dialing that lead multiple times in the first 1 to 2 minutes. Yep. And because that's what the people winning are doing. And if you're not doing that, it's you have a really meaningless argument with a marketing agency that they're not doing a good job.
00:18:16:03 - 00:18:42:14
Unknown
So first and foremost, you have to do your part. The second part is the operator requirement. Speed. Delete is a symptom. The goal is contact. I must get in contact and take this person out of the market. So I'll give you I'll give you a quick story. Example Glenn I use all the time. I was at an Airbnb that I purchased and my wife and I are, you know, checking all the spouts and making sure everything's working.
00:18:42:14 - 00:18:58:18
Unknown
And I was outside the water spout and she turns in and breaks off and it's squirting in the air. I have zero construction skills. I mean, I know I flip houses, but I don't actually do any of the work. Right? Yeah. So I'm like googling it. And this water shooting ten feet in the air and I'm like, what the hell am I?
00:18:58:19 - 00:19:17:04
Unknown
I'm like, on YouTube. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. So I call a plumber. I go to Google, I search, and this is like a Saturday on a holiday weekend, of course, you know, emergency plumbing situation. Need a plumber now, right? And Google my business pops up and I click the first one.
00:19:17:04 - 00:19:35:13
Unknown
I call it no answer. Click the second one, call it no answer. Click the third one, call it. They pick up as soon as they pick up. I'm a buyer. Like I don't need to talk to anybody else and say, I need you out here right now. Second person calls me back 30s later. I said, nope, don't need it.
00:19:35:13 - 00:20:01:11
Unknown
I already got somebody on their way. Yeah. So like, you have to get into contact with a person and get them out of the marketplace. A strategy that we use is we thought we dial five times on inbound digital leads, fixins literally five times back to back to back to back. And then we skip trace them with an ID product and confirm we have the right number and dial again.
00:20:01:16 - 00:20:23:02
Unknown
Yeah. So if you're not going to that length with your digital inbound process, like you really don't have an argument, I can't go to Glen and say your lead suck. Your marketing agency is not doing their job if I'm not doing my part. So that's my cautionary tale to people with leads and looking at their marketing and their ROI.
00:20:23:03 - 00:20:43:07
Unknown
It's like Mark spending money on marketing is only half the battle. Yep. Actually doing the part that you're required to do is the other half the battle. And honestly, that's the biggest flaw in a lot of people's businesses because they don't they're scared to make those calls or they don't want to call five times in a row. I don't know why they they're just setting money on fire, you know?
00:20:43:09 - 00:21:10:07
Unknown
And it's so true because we actually I teach a lot of webinars and podcasts and people need to understand there's a difference between lead types to like a miller, they may sit on their desk for a week or two, and then they pick up a call. And it's because whatever you spoke to on that, while PPC and SEO, they're searching like you did in that plumbing situation is they're saying, sell my home fast and they're actually out searching for that.
00:21:10:07 - 00:21:35:00
Unknown
And if you don't pick that up there in that emergency situation or their emotional right then. And so we actually have tons of studies and I, I go to so many masterminds that I saw an MIT study last week that that just came out that if you go past 90s, that's where the first drop off is. And it's it's something like it drops by four times whether you're going to get Ahold of them.
00:21:35:00 - 00:21:54:08
Unknown
And then if you're past five minutes a hundred times, it's 100 times less likely to get it. And I'm like, that's insane. And so just getting to that speed to lead is incredibly important for us. And even there's other clients that we've turned down or contacts that we've turned down because we're like, hey, walk us through your process.
00:21:54:09 - 00:22:22:10
Unknown
We want to get you these leads, but we want to make sure you can handle them. Because if you're spending 4 or $500 per lead and you don't answer that, you're going to blame us that that it was just not a quality lead. And that's why we actually do track it. We we do want to know what becomes quality and what does even get contacted, because then we can teach Google that, because there's plenty of other people who will get you a $40 cost per lead.
00:22:22:10 - 00:22:53:20
Unknown
But quality matters on that, because if that does nothing for you, it's not even worth it. And so that's something that we pay a lot of attention to is like, okay, what happened to that lead? Because if we just keep producing poor quality leads, there is a problem on us. Even if you have sales problems or whatever. We also can identify that by saying, okay, you know, we actually do think it's quality, but you don't have somebody who actually asked for the cell.
00:22:53:22 - 00:23:12:14
Unknown
Go ahead. I was going to say, Brandon and I sat down at one of our mastermind events and this guy goes, I have a marketing problem. Can you come help me? So we went and ran all his numbers and we're like, you don't have a marketing problem. You're actually beating the average client throughout the nation in marketing. But when and even you get appointments.
00:23:12:14 - 00:23:38:10
Unknown
But the appointment to offer made situation is actually lower. So do you have a problem with sales? And he's like, yeah, I don't trust those two sales guys. He's like, they are kind of weak on asking for the offer or giving the offer and asking for the cell. And we're like, that's where your gap is. And so that's why we track it too, is because, yeah, we want to know who's to blame or who really is at fault with not selling that.
00:23:38:10 - 00:24:05:10
Unknown
And so we pay attention to everything beyond the point of lead to, because sometimes it is a factor of our poor quality, but also at times it's, it is more beyond us. And so that is good that you actually focus so much on beyond that point. 111 thing we'll do to is I always want to come correct, like I'm never going to come to a service that is doing supporting me in marketing and say, like, you guys are all jacked up.
00:24:05:10 - 00:24:41:15
Unknown
I'm going to confirm that first. Yeah. My favorite way to confirm whether or not we're winning or losing on our side is to take the leads out of my database and or, you know, have a have a mechanism to see what has sold. So if you take all your historic leads and you upload them to one of these services like prop string, batch leads, property recon, whatever it is, right, whatever it is you use or if it's inherent like in and you could see what soul as you go, look at the salt, you extract that information out and then you sort it by all the LLCs.
00:24:41:17 - 00:25:04:14
Unknown
Or you look at the spread between purchased and sold and timeline of that particular sale, sale to sale. And you see what sold to an investor. Yeah. If I go into my leads, my dead leads in particular, and I pulled that and I researched that data and I got a bunch of stuff that sold to investors. That's a me problem.
00:25:04:16 - 00:25:28:18
Unknown
So I can't come to you and be like, hey, Glen, my PVCs, not performing my SEO and not performing if I'm not closing deals. And it's factual. I'm a data guy. Like a data over drama. Like I don't really care about your opinions. Like I want to know what the data says. And when I see the data is not if the data is bad on my side, I got to fix my own problems first and then I can come talk to you now.
00:25:28:18 - 00:25:54:06
Unknown
Not the dad is good on my side. Then I'm going to come and say, Glen, nothing's closing that you're sending me to. Nobody. Like, not me or anybody. So I'm a lead quality problem. The funny thing is, our CEO has the same vision as you, and so he's building a system right now where it does take the prop stream or a data source and building it into our CRM, that we actually look at your leads so we can say the same thing.
00:25:54:10 - 00:26:14:23
Unknown
Exactly what you did is hopefully we're going to have this done soon, and you can just go in and we can say, hey, of the ten that we saw, ten leads we gave you last month, four of them sold to investors within 60 days of us giving you that lead. That's not really an US problem. Like yeah, you how many times did you reach out what did happen.
00:26:15:00 - 00:26:34:00
Unknown
And we're building that. So that way we do have a little bit more understanding of what's happening to those leads and making sure that it does report quality. And so we're we're doing that. We're trying to automate all of that. We do have clients who do it manually. And that's why we're like, what if we automated this and just showed our clients how awesome it is?
00:26:34:02 - 00:27:00:11
Unknown
All right. Let's let's let's go. I want to talk PPC a little bit. So there's a spectrum of marketing channels okay. And on this spectrum you can imagine two axes. And on the right side vertical axis. What you're seeing is like cost of that particular style of marketing. And this will be like cold calling, SMS, direct mail, TV, pay per PPC, you name it.
00:27:00:12 - 00:27:27:14
Unknown
Right? Like everything's on that spectrum. From a cost perspective, a cold call lead is typically cheap. It's like you make 30 bucks or less usually, but it's cold on that bottom access that's going kind of horizontal there. That's quality of lead like most motivated lead. And you might see PPC for example, is up into the right. So maybe I pay two 300 bucks for that lead as opposed to $30.
00:27:27:14 - 00:27:51:12
Unknown
But if you go if you want to be a real professional organization and you're doing direct to seller marketing, go into your database and look separate your marketing channels and say, look at two dates the time. Now you actually have to be doing deals to do this, but the time that the date that lead came in to the date that we signed the contract, how many days is that?
00:27:51:12 - 00:28:15:21
Unknown
So on average, blended in our company, it's 59 days from lead to signing a contract. Now you separate that from marketing channel and you have a new KPI to measure in your business called return on effort. So the higher up and right marketing channels such as PPC, higher quality lead, but way more motivated much. It's literally an intent based lead.
00:28:15:21 - 00:28:41:19
Unknown
They're searching that I need your help. They're asking you. You're not reaching out to them. So you're going to pay more for that lead, but you're going to be from a number of leads, net leads to to sign contracts to be in that 8 to 12 range. Yep. So whereas cold calling is going to be, you know, 60 leads to get a contract.
00:28:41:21 - 00:29:06:05
Unknown
And I'm not exaggerating. It's going to be 60 leads to get a contract by and large. So it's like now think about this just from a resource perspective. You're a one man show. If you got a team I got to allocate a lot more resources to those 60 cold leads than I do those 12. Yeah. So while deletes more expensive, I have less people expenses to manage those leads.
00:29:06:07 - 00:29:28:00
Unknown
So funny. I think people have to take a more holistic view on their lead generation. Now of course it's expensive to do PPC and get 2 or 3 deal for or five deals a month. So you, you know, if you don't have the marketing budget for it, it won't make sense for you. But if you're doing 1 to 3 deals a month and you're bringing revenue into the business, you really do.
00:29:28:00 - 00:29:47:00
Unknown
Got to start looking at creating more efficiency and getting a better return on effort in your business. So let's let's talk about appropriate like PPC spend and kind of some of the metrics you would want a business to see. Like what are you looking for. If you come and say, Adam, I'm going to look at your model and say PPC makes sense for you.
00:29:47:00 - 00:30:07:02
Unknown
How would you evaluate me? What guidance would you give me? What would you tell me about it? Well, something on the report you were talking about. We actually did this. We actually surveyed over 100 real estate investors throughout the nation. And we actually have almost that exact skill that you you were talking about where they self submitted their own information on what kind of return.
00:30:07:03 - 00:30:29:08
Unknown
And it's on the left axis, it's ROI, and on the bottom it's leads to contract. And we have it mapped for every. So I mean as cold text, cold call, direct mail people everything on it. And we actually were curious like what are people spending on these and what is their ROI and everything. And so it's funny because we have all of that mapped out for all of these.
00:30:29:09 - 00:30:53:04
Unknown
And it's it's so true because our like PPC is less leads to contract than almost anything else. And so it's, it's quite a bit lower than PPO or, and you know, cold text is even insane. And the problem with cold text is it doesn't have litigation in it to. And so it's a high ROI, but it is actually it doesn't include litigation issues now too.
00:30:53:05 - 00:31:19:23
Unknown
So yeah, we have industry benchmarks that do reflect that exact thing that you're talking about. And for PBC specifically, what we are seeing is we are seeing and these are our the contracts. Our clients go in and actually submit those and tell us what became a contract. Well, there is like a percentage of our clients who don't tell us it became a they just are, I guess, lazy or they just don't pay attention to what became a contract.
00:31:19:23 - 00:31:47:07
Unknown
But 15 leads to a contract as our average across the entire nation. And so it's expensive. I mean, like cost per contract on average is just over five K for us. And so it's not cheap. That's something that I stress to everyone is PPC is not cheap, but they're faster to contract deals than most others. And the lead to contract rates are way lower.
00:31:47:07 - 00:32:10:08
Unknown
So yeah, you're not having to burn through burn out all these cells guys on cold calling. And so there is actually the effort I love. The cost per effort is a big metric that we do pay attention to, because it really can hurt your business just giving them cold calling all the time. And that's the problem. And so I would say that there's that there's those aspects.
00:32:10:08 - 00:32:30:12
Unknown
But yeah, what happens is we look at a market and we can tell you in that market how much is ideal spend. Because we have we have some clients who do spend like $3,000 and we're like, that's all your market in your market that you really can. That's your search volume. Really. There's not a crazy amount of people searching this right now.
00:32:30:12 - 00:33:01:10
Unknown
And so we're like, let's get you $3,000 spend. Now, I don't recommend $3,000 spend in LA in San Diego and anywhere like that. If you do, you're just throwing money away, honestly. But what we do say is the average investor that we actually like, where they start off is a 4 to 5 K budget, and that gives us enough time to create some learning, get some data under our our belts in that area, and then we can actually dial it in over a few months.
00:33:01:10 - 00:33:25:02
Unknown
And so the 4 to 5 K range is probably the average entry. While our average client spends 10 to $12 a month, we have clients who spend over 100. And those clients that spend like three K. But our average is just average spend is just over 10-K. And so spending that and then and that's their ad spend on the platform.
00:33:25:04 - 00:33:44:20
Unknown
Yeah. And I think I think you know if you're an investor listening to this you're going to want to think about this. The cost per contract blended nationwide five K. Call it if you can spend between if you can spend ten grand a month in your market, like you're giving yourself the best opportunity to succeed in the fastest amount of time.
00:33:44:20 - 00:34:04:06
Unknown
Because marketing is not linear, deals are not linear, and five K gets me one contract, ten out of the gate. You know, obviously you build up to that from a marketing perspective. But if I get to 10-K and I can do that consistently, I'm 1 or 2 deals, 1 or 2 deals a month, I can get to consistently.
00:34:04:08 - 00:34:31:07
Unknown
And, you know, sometimes you'll pop three and sometimes you'll pop zero. And that's what you really have to understand about marketing, like marketing is measured over a 12 month span, not over a month or two months. And I mean bare minimum 90 days. But really, six months to a year is like you get a year of data. You have you have what we call data significance, and you can genuinely make a determination on a marketing channel.
00:34:31:07 - 00:35:04:20
Unknown
The hard part for an investor is having the runway to be able to, to consistently spend, combined with the skill set to convert those leads into contracts and then the exit strategy savvy to maximize the return. So it's multi-layered regardless of what anybody will tell you. But it works, man. It works really, really, really well. And it works really well, especially when you're working with a professional organization like Bateman, who obviously has invested in great people, great resources.
00:35:04:20 - 00:35:27:05
Unknown
And Brandon is brilliant. I love talking to Brandon. Well, and like you saw two is we turn away a lot of businesses because they don't have processes, they don't have the budget, they don't have the runway that they need. Because that is a problem is if they come in and say, yeah, I'll give you 5KA month, but if I don't get a deal in the first 60 days, I'm broke.
00:35:27:07 - 00:35:45:08
Unknown
Then we're like, you know what? We're not ideal. Let's get a few more deals under your belt. And we refer people to direct mail or to PBL providers often because we're like, hey, get a few more deals under there, get some budget, get some, get some capital that you can use and that you're not dying if you don't.
00:35:45:09 - 00:36:07:20
Unknown
I mean, most of our clients do get a deal within the first three months, and it's a positive ROI at that point. But the hard part is sometimes waiting at that time for us to learn and grow and do it right, because we do dial it in. But it does take time. And I'm glad you did say that is we look, we do say there's a six month is average.
00:36:08:01 - 00:36:27:18
Unknown
Like what time you should look at at any marketing channel because of that. And 12 months is ideal because even in, in that past industry that we were spending $13 million a month on Google, I would see an account for no reason at all, just that month. They must not they must have upset the Google gods or whatever.
00:36:27:18 - 00:36:48:13
Unknown
It was just stuffed, tanked, and they're like, what did you do? And we like we didn't do anything. Then the very next month, it's like, things are insane. What's going on? We're like, oh no, you must be doing it. And it's Google it. It is on a longer term that we have to look at these because unfortunately, the consistency is just depending on what they're searching in the area.
00:36:48:13 - 00:37:15:12
Unknown
And there's so many factors that can influence those those marketing trends. Yeah I think that's I think that's just in it's it's multi-layered. There's there's multiple components, you know from, from a, you know, people that want to run PPC. What we really want to know is the operator is like is my is my Google account person and is my PPC person or agency.
00:37:15:15 - 00:37:36:02
Unknown
Are they paying attention to my account like is my account optimized? Is it, you know, are they actually paying attention to it? Which obviously Bateman. Bateman, you've got an army of really smart people looking at all the accounts. So you can't say that's true for every agency. So I think you just have to be careful who you choose to work with, and then you have to have appropriate expectations.
00:37:36:04 - 00:38:06:09
Unknown
Most people are disappointed because they have bad expectations, not because of bad performance. And when the expectations aren't clear between the the, the operator and the marketing agency they're using, it's like it's a recipe for absolute disaster. And here's the beautiful thing, Glenn, is even other agencies, like they get on the phone and they say very similar things to these operators, like, you know, hey, you need 3 to 6 months runway, like, you can't be here in desperation.
00:38:06:09 - 00:38:26:04
Unknown
This isn't the save an investor program. This is a this is a growth program for an investor who this makes sense for. And it takes, you know, X amount of time to get it up and running. And, you know, then we got to optimize. So like they hear that but they don't hear it. You know it's like it's month two Glenn.
00:38:26:04 - 00:38:49:18
Unknown
It's not working. You're like no it's working. It's it's it's we're learning and it's it's bringing in some leads. We're dialing it in. And it's just the expectation thing that always gets me. And it frustrates me too, because I spend a lot of time in a lot of resources and R&D, and I work with agencies like yours to find out who the best in the industry is for our community.
00:38:49:19 - 00:39:07:17
Unknown
Like there is no one in our community. We are the most stringent about who is allowed in our community, or a product that we'll put in front of our community because we want to know that it is quality. But it frustrates me as much as it frustrates the agency owner when somebody comes back. I mean, I used a resource to recommend it didn't work.
00:39:07:17 - 00:39:26:09
Unknown
I'm like BS, it didn't work. Let me look at it. And then I clearly unwind that with their business model. And I'm like, you know, you got to call the leads, right? They're like, oh yeah, I mean, I call them I'm like a week later. Yeah, that that's a recipe for disaster. So make sure along for the whole ride.
00:39:26:10 - 00:39:54:10
Unknown
Glenn, this has been incredibly awesome. Tell me who who listening to this is the right kind of person to to take a flier on bait and to see if they need, if they can get more leads from SEO or PPC, like, what would that investor company look like that that would be good to work with you guys. Yeah, our our ideal client is somebody who is I mean, ideal is doing 20 deals or more a year because we know that they have the budget.
00:39:54:10 - 00:40:16:03
Unknown
They do have the other things happening, other things growing and making it so they can afford to have that ramp up period. We don't we typically don't take anybody below ten, ten deals a year. And that's just because at that point it is we'd be their only lead source. It would be bleeding them dry. If they don't get a contract in that first month.
00:40:16:03 - 00:40:36:00
Unknown
And we will look at an area and say, okay, you know what, you have huge spreads. So yes, we can still work at it, but I would say anywhere above the 10 to 15 deal mark is people that we will go evaluate and make sure that it it does work. And then the best thing is wholesalers and fixer flippers.
00:40:36:00 - 00:41:00:03
Unknown
Now we do have some land clients. We actually do have some multifamily and those do great. But we actually have tailored everything towards wholesale and fixer flippers. And really, one of the better things that we've seen right now is actually foreclosure audiences. And so if you do even focus on pre foreclosure, that's another thing that we really have dialed in.
00:41:00:03 - 00:41:34:02
Unknown
But that's why wholesalers and fixer flippers are ideal for us. That's incredible. And then from a market a geographic perspective, what size populations what's kind of the minimum population size for a metro. That would make sense for you guys. And sometimes there is like depends on the how much volume is moving across your area too. But I would say typically we see $500,000 or 500,000 people or more, but occasionally it's even more than that because we go look, and there's not a lot of movement in that area.
00:41:34:02 - 00:41:59:09
Unknown
So we do love it in the million or more range. Love that. And for people who are like, that's me, I'm doing 15, 20 deals a year. I'm ready to invest in Google and add another two, three, four, five deals a month to my to my team. I have the capacity. I'm in the right market size. How can those people reach out to you guys and and work with you guys?
00:41:59:11 - 00:42:19:04
Unknown
And so if you just go Bateman Collective com going there and we actually do, we will do a free PPC audit or a free SEO audit and the SEO audit. What we do is we go say you're not ranking and here's how far off you are. And it's it's awesome because a lot of people will be like, oh, I can go do some of this myself and help improve it.
00:42:19:04 - 00:42:38:21
Unknown
And then the PPC audit, we'll just go tell you whether, if you are running all the things that you could be doing better or where you could improve your ROI on lots of things, or else if you're not doing PPC right now, we'll look at your industry, we'll look at your market and say, yeah, this is how much we think is ideal to spend.
00:42:38:21 - 00:42:57:13
Unknown
And here's some of the expectations we would have in your item. So Bateman Collective com we have just like book a book a meeting or else request an audit. And you can actually get those for free. And it's not like we're going to be hounding you and making sure you do. Of course we were going to say, do you want that help?
00:42:57:13 - 00:43:18:12
Unknown
And we can do it. And here's our pricing. Yeah. That's great. And I did note it with Brandon himself. And like I said, Brandon was like, here's here's where you have room for improvement. Here's the thing too about the audit is like, even if you don't become a client, it's massively valuable. And it's like, I don't know, I think it's really cool that you guys do that for people.
00:43:18:12 - 00:43:47:10
Unknown
So it's it's worth doing an audit on your business. If you have a website that's got SEO leads and you're like, oh man, I don't know if I'm doing this right, it doesn't really produce me any results. If you have a current PC provider and you're unhappy and you're not getting the results you think you should be getting, go do the audit like it costs you nothing to do, and you might find that you should be doing something different, and maybe you'll feel like the Bateman team is is the best team to kind of do that for you.
00:43:47:10 - 00:44:15:12
Unknown
So it's no pressure from these guys. They're just like big givers. And that's why they're in my world. Because, you know, they have such a giving mindset and they're also human. So I appreciate you Glenn. Dude, it's so cool. So cool to have you on. I think I'll see you in July at our event. Yeah, I was going to say I and if anybody wants or they can reach out directly to me too, and I can give them some industry insights and some market insights to and whether that's on the Facebook group in person.
00:44:15:12 - 00:44:34:13
Unknown
I'll be there in July. And then also any of the channels that you do have. I love that you're so active. I love to help and I love to give information. That's one of my superpowers. And so anybody can come ask me anything and I'll give all the information that they want for free. Yeah, I love that man.
00:44:34:15 - 00:44:53:10
Unknown
And I looked at MIT study up on speed to lead like I always love when I come back, something by a real study instead of it just being like anecdotal industry knowledge. But thanks man, I appreciate your time. And and for folks who might want to reach out directly to you, if you're in the community, Glen's in the community, you can talk to Glenn.
00:44:53:12 - 00:45:11:15
Unknown
If you're if somebody is not in our community but still wants to talk to you, how could they reach out to you? Yeah. So it's just G. Peterson at Bateman Collective and email me. And that's the greatest way to get Ahold of me. Love it brother. Yeah. We'll put that in the show notes to in case somebody listen to this in the future.
00:45:11:15 - 00:45:17:02
Unknown
And super grateful for you, man. And looking forward to seeing you in July. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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